Comments on: Lars Larson is Wrong, Again

By: Ray

Ray — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:04:15 +0000

As long as the teacher doesn't impose his own views on the students and keeps his private life to himself, I'm fine with him teaching my kids. But, the second he starts to cross the line, I'm going to cross it with him/her. Teach the curriculum, not your personal and political views.

By: April

April — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:47:17 +0000

What did Kay say that was so horrible? LeRoy said something that was very dismissive of transgendered people, and Kay called him out on it. Kay isn't required to genuflect three times before he calls BS, and neither is anyone else. LeRoy's behavior is, on it's face, ignorant and prejudiced. We are not required to accept the ignorance of others on their own terms.

By: ftm09

ftm09 — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:18:56 +0000

If you know Nicole, please tell her "Way to go", and pass along this post. Funny, transfolks like us are everywhere, whether people realize it or not, and that includes in schools and raising kids who go to school. I applaud your courage. You were the talk of the Portland folks at Gender Odyssey last weekend, as was the Portland FTM minister. I transitioned between districts, and a WA State district hired my FTM self without hesitation. I look like your average straight guy but am not, unbeknownst to most of my colleagues and all but one current student. Most of all, from a fellow math teacher, have fun with math this year. I applaud your courage to stay in your current school- may your students, colleagues, and community continue to treat you as well as before your public transition.

By: scottquick

scottquick — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 02:39:34 +0000

Completely by coincidence, I happen to catch Lars' comments on this topic while driving between appointments. I'm neither defending Lars or suggesting Jeff is wrong in his editorial … but rather simply pointing out there was at least one other angle not covered in this article.

The point Lars was making at the time that I heard him was this:

West Linn School District not only supported the teacher's gender transition (as do I) BUT … also wanted to turn the matter into a "teaching moment" and explain to the children that gender reassignment is "normal behavior."

It was the term "normal behavior" being used in a teachable moment that Lars was laser focused on. It was his position that parents have the right to disagree with the WLSD on the teachable moment issue… that the matter was still up for debate as wether or not the gender reassignment should be characterized as "normal" behavior to school-aged children.

I also believe (but my memory is a bit unsure on this point) that Lars cited the fact that the American Psychiatric Association has a body of work entitle Gender Identity Disorders (see: ” target=”_blank”>http://www.psych.org/MainMenu/Research/DSMIV/DSMV… for more information ). Again, his point was … and I'm not defending its validity … that if the APA officially recognized GID, how could it be taught as "normal" behavior?

I strongly believe that Jeff's underlying point of everyone's need to practice tolerance is the right point to make. But in fairness, we need to treat the parents who don't share the views of the WLSD with the same compassion and tolerance that we're demanding of them.

By: Sarasnavel

Sarasnavel — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:34:17 +0000

This is not a "lifestyle choice"; it is not a "choice" at all. Could you live your entire life in a body that was not yours, that did not fit the shape your brain expects or the Self that your brain knows is you? Could you spend your life being treated as someone you are not? For many transsexuals, the discord between brain and body is so great that the only "choice" is when to change. Or give up and die. Are you getting the picture yet? Imagine yourself in their place and really honestly think about what it would feel like, day after day to be connected to and seen in the wrong gendered body.

There are well over 200 carefully done studies that show that key parts of transsexual brains developed in the structure of the gender opposite the one assigned the person at birth by a doctor who only took a quick look between the legs. The AMA now accepts this as a medically treated condition and the treatment is to live as the self-identified gender and adjust the body to match the brain since it doesn't work the other way round. In other words, for the patient to live as his or her self. You would be amazed to know that there are far more of them than you know; people only persecute the ones that are unlucky enough to look "man" enough or "woman" enough. And yeah, they come in both genders. And they happen more in some families than random chance would cause, and there are plenty of genetic and hormonal conditions that contribute. This is nothing more than a variation of "human".

Regarding "intolerance": Promoting hatred toward someone based on a physical difference is not behavior that should be tolerated by anyone in our society. It crosses the line between "differing opinions" and becomes discrimination based on raising yourself up by stepping on others because they are different. Why not start trying to rile people up to kick out any teachers that are in a wheelchair? Or diabetic? Or some race other than yours? Heck, you might as well base your hatred on eye color once you start down that path.

All that transsexuals are asking for is to live their lives as themselves and not be treated with hatred. Is that really so much to ask from you?

The argument

By: Mike

Mike — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 19:31:12 +0000

Kay – While I don't necessarily disagree with you, you're tact is amazingly unconvincing. You state below that life experience is what has given you this opinion, but you are intolerant when others reach an alternative position that you do not agree with. Isn't that being hypocritical? Being educated and well rounded also means understanding that diversity (including LeRoy's opinion and Nicole Kint's gender orientation) is important.

By: Kay

Kay — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 17:04:07 +0000

It's sad that some people on here disagree with a personal choice made by Nicole Kintz. She's the same person she's always been. Anyone who disagrees with her choice, should ask yourself, if you really understand what she's going through. How would you feel if one day you woke up and felt 'wrong' in your own body. It is true what they say for people like you. Ignorance is bliss. I however, chose to go through my life being well educated and well rounded. I'm not ignorant and I attribute that to the people I've had in my life. Things I've seen and heard. And things that my close family and friends, and I have been through.

By: Kay

Kay — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 17:00:46 +0000

Ignorance is bliss right? You really don't know anything about what you're talking about. I suggest you learn a few things before you come on here and broadcast how you feel.

By: modiggs

modiggs — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 19:37:04 +0000

This article raises some interesting points. I'd have to disagree, however, and think that parents and students should be able to opt out of being instructed by certain teachers for any reason. Our tax dollars pay for their salaries. If a teacher is not best suited to teach a student (for whatever reason), the student should be able to choose a different teacher (or if necessary, take the class at a different school or community college).

It is interesting how the definition of discrimination seems to grow as the years go by. It seems like you cannot disagree with anyone's lifestyle without being called out as being a discriminator or bigot. If you treat someone with respect, but do not agree with their lifestyle does that now make you intolerant?

By: Amber

Amber — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:38:22 +0000

Being trans is not a choice. And LeRoy there are laws in Oregon that make discrimination based upons one gender identity illegal.